Supplements

Discuss health issues, for example teething problems, vaccinations etc

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lynn wise
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Supplements

Post by lynn wise »

Can anyone give me some advice on giving supplements.
Since Willow came to us, I've realised that Timber isn't quite as active as he was. (9 in October). Although he is a powerful and healthy lad. Vet says really strong heart etc. Wondered about a Glucosomine supp'. Any thoughts on the matter?
Also, wondered whether it is wise to supplement when they are on a complete food with all the additions. We always gave our other dogs cod liver oil in winter,and still do.
You read that too many additions aren't always a good thing in humans.I'm baffled :? Please help.
julie

Cod Liver Oil

Post by julie »

Hi Lynne,

Honey has also seemed to slow down over the last 6 months.

I've just started with cod-liver oil. Is there a reason why you stop giving it over summer?

Did you find any other supp' that benefited Timber?

Thanks Ju
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lynn wise
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Post by lynn wise »

Actually, stopped the C'L Oill after reading on here that you can overdo it. Got some of the Glucosimine from the health food shop as I'd read on here about dogs being given it. I get a bit bogged down with pills for this that and the other, so haven't used those either :oops: Sorry, not much help I'm afraid.
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Post by Ellas mum »

Hi Lynn,

When we had Leigh years ago, there were'nt many complete dog foods around so we did give a supplement of CLO'. It didn't suit her at all, made her sick and gave her the "runs". Eventually we found a good complete food and she was OK. She slowed down naturally with old age. Ella is 6 !/2 now and we don't give anything extra, just trust the food and she is thriving. If there was a problem with her joints etc, then of course we would seek advice and as has been said, I think sometimes we can overdo the supplements.

Jean
John

Post by John »

I've got to say I'm not a lover of Cod Liver Oil, it is possible to OD on it. Fish Body Oil is safer. All my dogs have Pilchards in Tomato Sauce for Sunday lunch right from babies.

As far as supplements go, this is something you need to experiment with a little because what seems to work wonders with one dog may well have no effect at all on another. And cost seems to not be a good guide! A friend uses a human Glucosamine supplement for one of her dogs very successfully. But when she could not get that particular brand and had to use a different brand her dog started limping again!

After years of working in the field my Anna started getting very stiff for two to three days after. After chatting it over with a vet friend she recommended I try "Flexivet Go." Now, three years later she was out picking up last season and although still stiff on the day was able to throw it off by the next morning. I have now retired her but am sure that without Flexivet she would have been retired two years ago!

But whatever you choose, you will not see instantaneous change. It does take a time to build up in the system and although I think we were seeing improvements in about a month I reckon it was a good three months by the time we really saw big improvements. Anna also loves them and would eat them like sweets given the chance.

Have a look here. http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?main_p ... f6dcb7be1f

Regards, John
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Post by CarolynM »

Hi Lynn

Sorry I missed this original post. We had my old lab Anna on glucosamine tablets and after a couple of days - what a difference, it was amazing!! But like John said, we tried another brand once and they didn't work as well.

In the last 2 years of her life we had her on cartrophen (sp) injections and again, the result was remarkable. She was able to get on the sofa for the first time ever (we had only had her 2 years).

Carolyn
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Post by hairydog »

We had our old Ben on Cartrophen and they worked wonders for him he couldnt take the usual medication as he had a sensitive stomach. Pilchards and sardines in tomato sauce go down well too, you often hear the bowl going round the kitchen floor...

As for suppliments you have to be careful as some also have "fillers" in them and dont have 100% of the glucosomine/chondotronin, in them this is why some of them dont work so well.
Have heard good reports about Flexivet though...
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Post by CarolynM »

Thanks Kathryn - I was trying to think of the make of them. I could see the bottles on the shelf but couldn't picture the name ......... :lol:
julie

Magnetic Collar

Post by julie »

I've just got Honey a magnet collar after a colleague noticed a huge improvement using one on her collie.

It already seems to be having a positive effect. We put it on her on Thursday evening and on Monday and Tuesday she had snuck upstairs after I'd left for work, slept on the bed and appeared on the landing when I got home for lunch. She hasn't shown any inclination to go upstairs for months. She had that lovely sleepy, I know I'm not supposed to be on the beds and I've been busted (but you love me lots) look on her face. :D

http://www.ecomagnets.com

The pichards and sardines have also gone down a treat - Honey thanks John for his suggestion! :lol:
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Post by janrobinson »

I have never ever had a dog with arthritis before but Bonnie is struggling with her left back leg which has always stuck out at a little angle but is now useless.

Have been trying Vet vits which didn't suit her. Then Rimadyl not much better. I have got some Flexivet but haven't had them long enough yet but she has started Cartrophen injections and goes for her second one tomorrow but seemed to give her a little relief for two days then back to the discomfort. Perhaps I should try a magnetic collar.
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Post by hairydog »

Jan the cartrophen can take some time to get things moving around 4 weeks, and it dosent always work for some dogs, although I have to say I havent heard any bad reports as yet..we also got a magnetic collar for Ben and it did help him..hope bonnie is more mobile soon... :)

hope the link attached is useful..
Cartrophen Vet
Rimadyl is also known as 'Carprofen.' There is another drug, developed in Australia before Rimadyl, called 'Cartrophen.' Although the generic names are similar, the drugs are radically different. Cartrophen Vet is not an NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug), as Rimadyl is. Unlike Rimadyl, which intends only to relieve the symptoms of arthritis, Cartrophen is purportedly a "disease modifying anti-osteoarthritic drug" that promotes the regrowth of cartilage and the generation of synovial fluid. Cartrophen Vet is like Adequan and Cosequin in this respect.

According to a note from the manufacturer (Biopharm of Australia; Arthropharm of Canada is the North American/Canadian distributor): "Cartrophen Vet is not available in the USA at this time. However, a USA file is almost complete for the product and we are doing research in Universities in the USA. At this time, the product is available in Canada and we understand that it can only be imported into the USA by individual veterinarians. Arthropharm Pharmaceuticals Inc., can be contacted at 613.738.8607." Cartrophen may be administered by injection and is also available in capsule form. It is sold by prescription only in Australia, England, and Canada. Arthropharm has a website at: http://www.arthritis.au.com and an e-mail address at info@arthritis.au.com.

The manufacturer labels the drug with the recommended dosage of one shot per week for the first 4 weeks and one shot every 4 weeks thereafter for the life of the animal. If the drug is used following surgery, it can be discontinued once healing is complete. Studies done on Cartrophen in England were based on one shot every 6 months rather than every 4 weeks; thus, the results may not truly reflect the efficacy of the drug when administered as recommended by the manufacturer. Nonetheless, the performance of the drug seems to have been reliable and good enough to warrant tests of its effectiveness on humans. These tests are currently being conducted in Australia.

Excerpts from anecdotal reports that attest to the efficacy of Cartrophen Vet follow:

May 1999, from John Lynch of Olympia, WA: "I have a soon-to-be (July 31, 1999) twelve-year-old German Shepherd bitch with severe arthritis in both of her elbows. The condition is secondary to ununited anchoneal processes (UAP) in each elbow, a condition that afflicts some Shepherds. I have tried every possible medication to ease the female's discomfort. Rimadyl nearly killed her; after six days she had extremely anomalous liver readings, and, to Pfizer's credit, their veterinarian concurred with mine and advised ceasing the medication immediately. She has had glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate as a supplement for years. She also takes 'Winston's Joint Formula,' which seems to afford some mild help. She is also dosed with two Tylenol extended-relief-for-arthritis tablets (650 mg. each) twice-a-day. She has had a full series of Adequan injections as well, including follow-ups, to no appreciable benefit. I've also tried other homeopathic herb/nutracuetical remedies as well (e.g., MSM, Evening Primrose Oil, Vitamin C, etc.)

"I first heard of Cartrophen Vet on the Senior Dogs Project website. I also found it referenced in a veterinary text on small-animal arthritis. I contacted Arthopharm, the company which manufactures Cartrophen Vet in Australia. Since I live 60 miles south of Seattle, I also asked for names of veterinarians in British Columbia. I contacted the closest clinic and made arrangements to pick up the medication for the initial course of treatments --- once a week for four weeks and once every month thereafter for four months. The total cost was just under $100 U.S.

"That following Monday, my dog had her first shot. She has now had all four weekly shots and is due for her first monthly supplement on May 24th. The effect has been dramatic. I have finally found something for her which has had a truly and markedly clearly beneficial effect.

From Richard Owocki (owocki@sympatico.net) in Canada: "I have an 8-year-old Border Collie named Megabyte. Just about a year ago his competition obedience marks went from 198's to 180's. He was always sitting off to one side. X-rays showed bad hips (HD) with the onset of arthritis. He started on .7cc of Cartrophen Vet once a week for six weeks and once a month ever since. I have seen no side effects. All I know is I have a pain-free Border Collie who enjoys Frisbee, agility, and racing around the fields with my other dogs. Cartrophen Vet has given Megabyte a second chance at what he loves to do. I feel all dogs everywhere should have that same chance."

Side effects of Cartrophen Vet known to occur in the first 48 hours after administration and then to disappear are: (1) lethargy; (2) a rise in body temperature. There have also been undocumented reports that, in the human trials currently being conducted, severe diarrhea has occurred along with small GI bleeds in almost 100% of patients. Stroke has been mentioned but not substantiated as a potential major complication, along with sudden death syndrome in dogs. Since the clinical trials are not yet complete, definitive conclusions cannot be drawn about these side effects. It has been determined, however, that Cartrophen Vet is contraindicated for dogs with cancer. Cartrophen increases the blood flow to joints and, at the same time, to tumors; therefore a dog who has been diagnosed with cancer should not take Cartrophen.
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Post by janrobinson »

Thanks for the info. I will wait and hope that in another couple of weeks I will have a happy dog again. As I said I haven't had an arthritic dog before. Many other problems as you will know with all the old Goldens I have been blessed with, and I really mean blessed as they have all been wonderful. I suppose in time I will have had the lot
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Post by hairydog »

Jan I now have Paddy on 1 synoquin a day and it has helped him enormously the difference in him is quite remarkable, ,I wasnt having him on any Rymadyl as I have been down the NSAID drugs and their problems with Ben ,and learnt the hard way,so for the time being this does help maybe something similar for Bonnie to give her an extra help along the way...??
John

Post by John »

I think you are getting Carprofen and Cartrophen mixed Kathryn :wink: Rimadyl is in fact Carprofen. Cartrophen is Pentosan Polysulphate Sodium which is a semi-synthetic polymer. It's very effective because it aims to improve the joint rather than just treat the pain. Often vets go onto a regular 3/4 monthly injection to keep the system topped up.

There are possible side effects although not common but because it can be a bit of an anti coagulation it should never be used on a dog likely to bleed such as a cancer sufferer.

Regards, John
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Post by hairydog »

No John,its ok I do know difference when we had Ben on the Cartrophen I went into it, as he had a sensitive stomach and couldnt tolerate any NSAID, so this is why the vet put him on Cartrophen, and I have to say it worked wonders for him, the only side effect he had with it was it did make him a bit sleepy but I could cope with that, the following day he was fine...thanks for pointing it out though as I know people do get them both confused... :)
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